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PREDESTINATION. CALVINISM & ARMINIANISM;
(This article is unfinished- these are first thoughts and setting in order is still in progress)
Christians are divided over this subject of predestination, but, personally, I don't think the Bible is.
If the subject is new to you then a glance at a comparison chart between the two sides of the argument might help.
"Calvinism " and "Arminianism". This comparison is copied from http://www.the-highway.com/compare.html. which appears to be of the Calvinist persuasion;
Their opinion of what the Arminian believes, I personally think, is slightly biased. In the summary below, the parts which give a biased account of Arminianism are highlighted in italics. There is much more information on the net regarding this controversy.
Also you can try http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/calvinarminian.htm
Christians are divided over this subject of predestination, but, personally, I don't think the Bible is.
If the subject is new to you then a glance at a comparison chart between the two sides of the argument might help.
"Calvinism " and "Arminianism". This comparison is copied from http://www.the-highway.com/compare.html. which appears to be of the Calvinist persuasion;
Their opinion of what the Arminian believes, I personally think, is slightly biased. In the summary below, the parts which give a biased account of Arminianism are highlighted in italics. There is much more information on the net regarding this controversy.
Also you can try http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/calvinarminian.htm
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ARMINIAN VIEW
Free-Will or Human Ability Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation. Conditional Election God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation. Universal Redemption or General Atonement Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it. The Holy Spirit Can Be Effectually Resisted The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) precedes and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man. Falling from Grace Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ - that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost. |
CALVINIST VIEW
Total Inability or Total Depravity Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God. And here is their version of what they allege the Arminian believes; Unconditional Election God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation. Particular Redemption or Limited Atonement Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation. The Efficacious Call of the Spirit or Irresistible Grace In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended Perseverance of the Saints All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end. |
Note above italics: While the Calvinists would argue that the sinner limits the work of the Spirit, the Arminian would argue that the Calvinist belief, that Jesus only died for the "few on the narrow road" is to limit beyond measure the grace of God. For the scriptures teach clearly that he gave his life a ransom for all, and whoever chooses to believe will be saved.
Both set of beliefs have degrees of extremity. Many find truth in each camp. Some are diametrically opposed.
Their is much written on this subject and can be found easily on line.
Both set of beliefs have degrees of extremity. Many find truth in each camp. Some are diametrically opposed.
Their is much written on this subject and can be found easily on line.
As MUCH AS I WOULD OPPOSE Calvinistic doctrine, I have no lack of love or respect for those who hold such beliefs. I have many christian friends who are persuaded by what they have been taught. I doubt if many of them have thought it through, beyond being told that they were chosen before the foundation of the world and their names were written in the lamb's book of life also, at that "time".
No doubt the Calvinist desires to confess no part whatsoever in their salvation, in order to attribute to God such power and wisdom and honour and glory, thus magnifying the grace of God.
However, I do not believe that God desires glory for such attributes. On the contrary, his greatest antagonist, whose only desire is to rob God of his glory, has the cards stacked in his favour. For God's glory is surely in the creation of a being in the same image as himself.
who has a free will to choose good or evil. This human attribute would seem to be the icing on the cake for Satan. However, such is the wisdom and love of God, that Satan is outwitted and all his attempts at destroying man's faith in his love, rebound on Satan, for his best efforts make the redeemed MORE than conquerors.
God's glory is magnified in his wisdom in creating man as a free agent. For his redemption comes about by responding freely to the LOVE of God. For God IS love and love triumphs in the end. Romans ch 8 is the classic example of God allowing his redeemed creature being exposed (sheep for the slaughter) to the worst and cruelest schemes of Satan, and yet man remains firm in his faith in the Love of God, because of Calvary,
In comparison it would appear that the Calvinist view of God's created being is a some form of Zombie not capable of any spiritual perception.
Scripture says that man was the height of divine creation. God only rests in perfection.
God could not have created anything better than a physical form like unto himself, with all the spiritual capacities to live His life. The Psalmist says he Crowned man with glory and honour. This suggests to me sovereignty, glory and honour, fit to reign over God's creation. The whole universe was made for man. God is not a despot. To deny man that invested sovereignty would be to deny himself. But equally so, his wisdom love and power has proved well capable of winning man ove the bondage of sin and death. The Gospel surely is an awesome revelation of such attributes for those who understand how the Gospel of grace works..
No doubt the Calvinist desires to confess no part whatsoever in their salvation, in order to attribute to God such power and wisdom and honour and glory, thus magnifying the grace of God.
However, I do not believe that God desires glory for such attributes. On the contrary, his greatest antagonist, whose only desire is to rob God of his glory, has the cards stacked in his favour. For God's glory is surely in the creation of a being in the same image as himself.
who has a free will to choose good or evil. This human attribute would seem to be the icing on the cake for Satan. However, such is the wisdom and love of God, that Satan is outwitted and all his attempts at destroying man's faith in his love, rebound on Satan, for his best efforts make the redeemed MORE than conquerors.
God's glory is magnified in his wisdom in creating man as a free agent. For his redemption comes about by responding freely to the LOVE of God. For God IS love and love triumphs in the end. Romans ch 8 is the classic example of God allowing his redeemed creature being exposed (sheep for the slaughter) to the worst and cruelest schemes of Satan, and yet man remains firm in his faith in the Love of God, because of Calvary,
In comparison it would appear that the Calvinist view of God's created being is a some form of Zombie not capable of any spiritual perception.
Scripture says that man was the height of divine creation. God only rests in perfection.
God could not have created anything better than a physical form like unto himself, with all the spiritual capacities to live His life. The Psalmist says he Crowned man with glory and honour. This suggests to me sovereignty, glory and honour, fit to reign over God's creation. The whole universe was made for man. God is not a despot. To deny man that invested sovereignty would be to deny himself. But equally so, his wisdom love and power has proved well capable of winning man ove the bondage of sin and death. The Gospel surely is an awesome revelation of such attributes for those who understand how the Gospel of grace works..
Firstly we will deal with the Calvinists mistaken ideas about Arminianism, with the proviso that if the above summary concerning Arminian beliefs is accurate, then personally, I must pronounce myself as neither an Arminian nor Calvinist.
Note the above Calvinist view of Arminianism "his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature." If that is true then those who pigeon-hole me as an Arminian, are mistaken, for man is indeed enslaved to sin by his sinful nature. That is intrinsic in our rejoicing in the glory of God, that God has devised a means whereby we can be set free from such slavery by "living by faith", or "living in the Spirit as in Romans ch 8
1. Man IS by nature spiritually dead- cut off from God because of sin, which is a spiritual concept. Man is a created spiritual being. He is held together and functions by spiritual unseen attributes, primarily by faith, (what he believes) love, and hope, etc. He is not an animal. He has a spiritual realm within, but Sin reigns therein.
2. Man is totally a slave to sin- the gospel contains that bad news.
3. Man cannot save himself by any work of the flesh. - keping laws, or doing good works etc. Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, all affirm this very strongly.
The proof that man is a spiritual being, lies in the fact that EVERYONE in the world believes something. There is not an unbeliever on the earth. In fact, faith is the largest spiritual faculty with which he or she functions. One would be hard pressed to think of a daily exercise which is not fulfilled on the basis of faith. We start early in exercising faith, for none are more trusting than children. Maybe this is the "light that lights every man that comes into the world" (John 1) plus conscience. All men can believe and put their trust in someone else or the promise of someone else. Society is based upon this spiritual faculty. (see notes later) Romans ch 1 clearly shows that man revealed his own heart, by choosing to believe lies rather then the truth revealed in Nature, when God gave him over to his own way, and desires of his heart.
Man chooses to live his own life, and go his own way. He takes pride in being able to sing or say "I did it my way". Sin is independence. Therefore God has made salvation an act of faith, which is total dependence upon God.
4. Contrary to Calvinist belief, Faith is NOT A "WORK"- Paul goes to great lengths to prove that, in Romans ch 4. for if it had to be of faith so that Grace could be poured out.(Rom 4:16) otherwise if faith was a work, then man would be entitled to a reward for his effort. This would exclude grace from the gospel process.
Faith is an attitude of heart. Then action follows, which is to "rest". Faith means to rest completely upon. One would ask what the Calvinist would reply to the Jailer who cried "What must I DO to be saved? Does Paul reply - "well you just have to wait until God gives you the faith. If you were chosen before the foundation of the world then, don't worry, it will come one day."Or what answer to the Jews who asked Jesus "what must we Do to Do the works of God?"
5. Jesus IS the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN.. CHRIST DIED FOR ALL.
How much scripture must be manipulated to even suggest that this is not true?, (I ask myself)
God is not willing that any should perish. (Even the Calvinist bible says these things on more than one occasion) God so loved "THE WORLD" that he gave his son, long before men repented. Paul makes this point at the beginning of Romans ch 5 when emphasising the extent of God's love for us; "While we were still in our sin, Christ died for us". The same chapter confirms that the atonemnt made by Jesus Christ covers the same number as those who died spiritually through the sin of Adam. Atonement means "covering", and by definition there has to be more than enough grace to cover sin.
Calvinist belief states that Jesus only died for the church, and that the church comprises only those who God arbitarilly chose as individuals before the foundation of the world. Now because this belief smacks of prejudice and not justice, Calvinism has conjured up a couple of phrases to qualify it. The grace of God, which the New Testament says is available to all, is termed "Sovereign grace", meaning that God is sovereign and he can choose to give out his mercy and grace, as he pleases; man cannot argue with that, for all deserve to be cast into the torments of Hell for ever and ever. To justify such "sovereignty" the phrase "the responsibility of man", is coupled with it. But how a dead man (Eph 2) can be responsible I know not. If he is not responsible for his own beliefs, then I would love to know what he is responsible for.
Why they also have to qualify "faith" by calling it "Saving" faith, and the Grace of God as "Sovereign Grace"- I would not know, for they are both non-scriptural terms. You would think that at least one of the prophets or the writers of the epistles might have mentioned it. They have to invent these terms because they don't understand Romans 9 and about six other verses of scripture. They obviously do not believe that someone's name can be blotted out from the book of life, or that someone who gets attached to Christ can be cut off. But the Bible clearly states both these truths, and scores like them.
6. The Calvinist view of Arminian belief concerning the Spirit is nonesense- "Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work." . If any doctrine limits the work of the Spirit it is Calvinism, for they limit the grace of God, in believing that though God is not willing that any should perish, and states in his word that "Christ died for all", He has chosen to only save a few whom He has led from the broad path to the narrow way. He has chosen a few from the many.
7. "Falling from Grace" Galatians 5:4 says you can fall from Grace. Calvinist view of the Grace of God is so biased it is unbelievable. They think they are giving Him due glory by attributing to him the attributes of a despotic deceiver.
Please read these notes right through, though your stamina might be tested.
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Note the above Calvinist view of Arminianism "his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature." If that is true then those who pigeon-hole me as an Arminian, are mistaken, for man is indeed enslaved to sin by his sinful nature. That is intrinsic in our rejoicing in the glory of God, that God has devised a means whereby we can be set free from such slavery by "living by faith", or "living in the Spirit as in Romans ch 8
1. Man IS by nature spiritually dead- cut off from God because of sin, which is a spiritual concept. Man is a created spiritual being. He is held together and functions by spiritual unseen attributes, primarily by faith, (what he believes) love, and hope, etc. He is not an animal. He has a spiritual realm within, but Sin reigns therein.
2. Man is totally a slave to sin- the gospel contains that bad news.
3. Man cannot save himself by any work of the flesh. - keping laws, or doing good works etc. Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, all affirm this very strongly.
The proof that man is a spiritual being, lies in the fact that EVERYONE in the world believes something. There is not an unbeliever on the earth. In fact, faith is the largest spiritual faculty with which he or she functions. One would be hard pressed to think of a daily exercise which is not fulfilled on the basis of faith. We start early in exercising faith, for none are more trusting than children. Maybe this is the "light that lights every man that comes into the world" (John 1) plus conscience. All men can believe and put their trust in someone else or the promise of someone else. Society is based upon this spiritual faculty. (see notes later) Romans ch 1 clearly shows that man revealed his own heart, by choosing to believe lies rather then the truth revealed in Nature, when God gave him over to his own way, and desires of his heart.
Man chooses to live his own life, and go his own way. He takes pride in being able to sing or say "I did it my way". Sin is independence. Therefore God has made salvation an act of faith, which is total dependence upon God.
4. Contrary to Calvinist belief, Faith is NOT A "WORK"- Paul goes to great lengths to prove that, in Romans ch 4. for if it had to be of faith so that Grace could be poured out.(Rom 4:16) otherwise if faith was a work, then man would be entitled to a reward for his effort. This would exclude grace from the gospel process.
Faith is an attitude of heart. Then action follows, which is to "rest". Faith means to rest completely upon. One would ask what the Calvinist would reply to the Jailer who cried "What must I DO to be saved? Does Paul reply - "well you just have to wait until God gives you the faith. If you were chosen before the foundation of the world then, don't worry, it will come one day."Or what answer to the Jews who asked Jesus "what must we Do to Do the works of God?"
5. Jesus IS the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN.. CHRIST DIED FOR ALL.
How much scripture must be manipulated to even suggest that this is not true?, (I ask myself)
God is not willing that any should perish. (Even the Calvinist bible says these things on more than one occasion) God so loved "THE WORLD" that he gave his son, long before men repented. Paul makes this point at the beginning of Romans ch 5 when emphasising the extent of God's love for us; "While we were still in our sin, Christ died for us". The same chapter confirms that the atonemnt made by Jesus Christ covers the same number as those who died spiritually through the sin of Adam. Atonement means "covering", and by definition there has to be more than enough grace to cover sin.
Calvinist belief states that Jesus only died for the church, and that the church comprises only those who God arbitarilly chose as individuals before the foundation of the world. Now because this belief smacks of prejudice and not justice, Calvinism has conjured up a couple of phrases to qualify it. The grace of God, which the New Testament says is available to all, is termed "Sovereign grace", meaning that God is sovereign and he can choose to give out his mercy and grace, as he pleases; man cannot argue with that, for all deserve to be cast into the torments of Hell for ever and ever. To justify such "sovereignty" the phrase "the responsibility of man", is coupled with it. But how a dead man (Eph 2) can be responsible I know not. If he is not responsible for his own beliefs, then I would love to know what he is responsible for.
Why they also have to qualify "faith" by calling it "Saving" faith, and the Grace of God as "Sovereign Grace"- I would not know, for they are both non-scriptural terms. You would think that at least one of the prophets or the writers of the epistles might have mentioned it. They have to invent these terms because they don't understand Romans 9 and about six other verses of scripture. They obviously do not believe that someone's name can be blotted out from the book of life, or that someone who gets attached to Christ can be cut off. But the Bible clearly states both these truths, and scores like them.
6. The Calvinist view of Arminian belief concerning the Spirit is nonesense- "Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work." . If any doctrine limits the work of the Spirit it is Calvinism, for they limit the grace of God, in believing that though God is not willing that any should perish, and states in his word that "Christ died for all", He has chosen to only save a few whom He has led from the broad path to the narrow way. He has chosen a few from the many.
7. "Falling from Grace" Galatians 5:4 says you can fall from Grace. Calvinist view of the Grace of God is so biased it is unbelievable. They think they are giving Him due glory by attributing to him the attributes of a despotic deceiver.
Please read these notes right through, though your stamina might be tested.
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On a personal level, I am of Arminian persuasion, though it is certainly not for want of trying to gain positive answers from many "calvinist" friends and websites. Also, I can definitely say that what I believe never came from a book or another preacher, other than the Bible.
(I didn't know I was pigeon-holed as an Arminian until a Calvinist friend (of which I have quite a few) told me of the conflict.
I have noticed that whenever a Calvinist preacher comes across the word “chosen” during his sermon or exposition, they almost always feel obliged to explain “this difficult subject of election”. Those who attended Keswick Convention in Aug 2012 will have heard these very words come from, that excellent preacher Jeremy McCloid from Aberdeen, who throughout his week of preaching on Thessalonians, was not slow to quote from many contemporary renowned preachers such as Carson, Piper and Keller etc; who obviously all have the same difficulty, otherwise he would have surely quoted a simple explanation from one of them.
As a great reader of C.H. Spurgeon, I am well aware of his calvinistic beliefs, but here is a very revealing quote, from the great man himself regarding this problem;
Sept 5th Evening note from "Morning and Evening" readings.-
"Have you entered into the springs of the sea?" Job 38:16
"Some things in nature must remain a mystery to the most intelligent and enterprising investigators. Human knowledge has bounds beyond which it cannot pass. Universal knowledge is for God alone. If this be so in the things which are seen and temporal, one may rest assured that it is even more so in matters spiritual and eternal. Why, then, have I been torturing my brain with speculations as to destiny and will, fixed fate, and human responsibility? (Ed. predestination and the will of man)
These deep and dark truths. I am no more able to comprehend them than to find out the depth which couches beneath, from which old Ocean draws her watery stores. Why am I so curious to know the reason of my Lords Providence is, the motive of his actions, the design of his visitations? "
If Spurgeon had problems, then lesser mortals have no chance of giving a reason for their Calvinistic faith.
It is patently obvious that this great man, and most Calvnists cannot reconcile these two "biblical" truths. Hence their analogical explanation as two seemingly separate parellel lines, which will meet in eternity- beyond man's present perceptions.
But there IS a SIMPLE EXPLANATION. It is only difficult if you misunderstand certain scriptures, such as Romans ch.9.
We all believe in election and predestination, but how we interpret them differs radically.
Peter says “elect according to the foreknowledge of God”.
Paul says "Those he did foreknow, he did predestinate."
There you have it. God elected those whom he foreknew would have faith in Him and his word. – end of difficulty!.
The main reason the word "chosen" appears so much in the new Testament is merely because under the NEW Testament, the Gentiles were included in "the chosen". and it has more to do with purpose than preference. Such adjectives are usually accompanied by "to be holy" or similar. God chose and called the Israelites unto himself for the same purpose. He desired they should be different from all other nations, who were unholy.
But please note that The Jews all thought they were “chosen” children of Abraham, because they were circumcised and followed the Jewish religion, based on the law of Moses. But the New Testament bombshell that Paul threw into the chambers of the Jewish religion's heirarchy, was that ONLY those who had the faith of Abraham were chosen, and were the true children of Abraham. The only works that counted were those done in and after faith- hence the list of Old Testament heroes, accepted by God, in Hebrews ch 11-(especially written to Jews)
It was not their works that saved them, but their FAITH. Faith alone saved them. Hence the connundrum “faith alone saves, but faith alone does not save”. Lightning alone kills you but lightning alone will not kill you, unless it is accompanied by thunder. The thunder does not kill you- only the lightning. The work that should follow faith for salvation is "rest", according to Hebrews. If you don't rest in your salvation, you must still be working
In normal life we all live according to our faith. We would not eat, travel, sleep or anything else if we did not believe we would be safe. Our whole economy is based on faith. Billions per year are lost through fraud and deception.
So our faith is revealed in our works. Before the foundation of the world, God chose to save those he knew would live out their faith in God and his word by obedience, simply because he foreknew every last one of them. That has always been God’s sovereign plan- not the despotic, conniving, manipulating plan expounded with obvious difficulty by Calvinists, bless ‘em!
He planned to save everyone who went into the Ark, who responded to Noah's message of Righteousness and warning of Judgement. (Incidentally, we read that those who only had the revelation of nature and conscience to believe, heard the full gospel while in Hell- but we will not pursue this mystery in this context; or you could ask your nearest calvinist))
God had a plan to choose only those who themselves would choose to believe in His Son Jesus Christ.
There is no great mystery to such a plan. He has revealed it unto babes. Spurgeon troubled his mind unnecessarialy and the great Calvinist preachers of today, need not count such truths as Predestination and the Sovereignty of God as a "great problem.
More books have been written on Calvinism, I would guess, than any other subject of Scripture. It confirms the amount of scripture that they find difficult to accept without literary gymnastics. A classic example is that some writers interpret the word "if" in Hebrews as "because"- what does that tell you?
Whenever you go on a Grace or Calvinist forum on line and ask questions such as "at what age is a child chosen? " or "will more be lost than saved?- more often than no, t you will be advised to read a book.
And ironically, if you persist asking questions you will probably be banned from the forum, as has happened to me more than once, This on a "grace" forum as well !!
This has been a very brief and probably inadequate apology, as I doubt if anything more could be expressed by quoting three quarters of the Bible or a thousand human writers. So it is totally inadequate and fails miserably to answer the vast works of Calvin, Spurgeon and MLJ, who seemed obliged to explain their reasonings in minute detail; such as only the highly intelligent can understand. Thankfully God in his wisdom and knowledge of simple souls like myself has made the gospel easy to understand, yet profound enough to touch the depth of each believer's heart and set his feet on the right path of Holiness and obedience.
If you are not inclined towards reading the rest of my ramblings on this subject then should you have any questions, I would be happy to try to answer them without launching into a long argument. Please the window on the home page
One of the children of Calvinism is the non biblical phrase, "Once saved always saved" -(O>S>A>S)
I will deal with that on another page. n the meantime you can hunt the New testament for any scraps of knowledge that might suggest such a belief.
All that is written above is more a summary of the rest of the notes than a preamble. But the rest of the notes, though slightly jumbled are the thought processes to the above conclusions. So if you can bear it, read on......
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We all believe in predestination, and that God is Sovereign and chooses according to his own counsel and will.
So let me state the questions I put to my Calvinist friends;
We all believe in Predestination;
But whom does God predestinate? (an honest answer may help here)
We all believe in Election:
but Whom did God “elect”? (please answer)
Romans 8 tells us that he predestinated those he foreknew.
Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Peter addresses his letter to the “Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God”
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Therefore the key question surely is; What did God need to foreknow before he pre-destinated or elected? (it would be good if the reader would consider his or her answer before they read on)
I have also noticed that when the Calvinist "sheep" seek to justify their belief in "predestination" that most of the scriptures they quote are merely endorsing God's foreknowledge- e.g. I saw you in the womb- chose or called you as a prophet etc.
God’s thoughts are always forethoughts, he knows the end from the beginning. He had the medicine in the cupboard long before the man-child got sick, though it was never his perfect will for man to get "sick", for The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
It is within his "foreknowledge" that we see the true understanding of the Sovereignty of God, for his knowledge outshines all other knowledge. It is foreknowledge. The end from the beginning.
We all believe in Predestination and we all believe the bible teaches the sovereignty of God, but some, I believe have a warped understanding of such sovereignty, for the Calvinist viewpoint is that man has not got a free will. This surely makes most of the bible a total farce.
So let us address the problem of Sovereignty as briefly as possible, in contrast may I add, to the Calvinist books on the subject which would stretch a few times around the world if placed side by side.
God is a God of Wisdom, Love and Power. He is supreme in all three attributes.
His wisdom outweighs all human and satanic wisdom. That is why he can afford to give to both human and satanic forces "freedom" to do their damnest, for he will accomplish his purposes by His LOVE. He does not need to conspire mysteriously, nor to act in a despotic way to show his sovereignty. His sovereignty conquers all other sovereignty. He is King of KINGS- not zombies. His Love & Wisdom constrain them to bow the knee and cast their crowns before him.
The scripture states that in the Kingdom, the Lion will sit down with the Lamb. We might well ask, how can this be? Is it done by compromise? Does the Lion become less ferocious and the Lamb more ferocious? How incongruous is that? Surely anyone could dethrone a lamb, as easilly as to chase a cat off the settee or the dog off a bed. Both may seem incongruous to many. So what mysterious power has enabled a lamb to conquer all who cast their crowns willingly before Him? The answer must surely be obvious.
The Calvinist may deny that man is Sovereign. But the scriptures clearly indicate that this is what makes man such an amazing created being.
Further, is not Jesus, "King of Kings" (who obviously are sovereign) so who are the Kings that he is King over? There were plenty of Kings in the Bible.
The Psalmist says that man has been “crowned” with glory and honour. The apostles cast their crowns before the throne in Revelation.
Jesus even quoted the Psalmist when he said of man, “You are gods”- No strings attached, no zombies, “free agents”. Made as a trinity in God’s image- Father Holy Spirit, Son = Spirit, Soul and Body. This sovereignty is the greatest marvel of man as a created being.
Constantly throughout scripture God offers mankind choices and decisions. Are we to believe that God overules such choices and myseriously exerts his own will? If that were so, there should not be any evil in the world.
When Moses gave God's chosen people the Law, He told his chosen people that they had a choice between blessing and curses. Blessing if they obeyed the commandments and curses if they didn't. The last word in the Old Testament is "curse", which sums up exactly how the majority of God's "chosen" people finished up.
Joshua chose to serve the Lord, as did the Levites. God judged Israel according to how much they believed his word and OBEYED his commandments.
The Calvinist seems to think that the bible teaches that all true believers were individually chosen and their names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Therefore this infers that the vast majority of God's creatures have really no chance of being saved, unless God chose them then.
But surely it is true that before the foundation of the world, He knew what man would choose to do and made his plans accordingly.
By his foreknowledge, He knows AND HAS ALWAYS KNOWN how many souls will make up the Bride of the Lamb. How many will choose to believe the gospel.
He even knows how many foolish virgins there will be who will allow their lamps of faith to go out because they think the Lord’s return is not imminent. (Matt 25:1-13)
He knows the number of those in the Lord’s service who will “feed the household” as the Lord commanded but who will tire of giving and serving, especially as the Lord delays his coming and shall go and start feasting and drinking with the ungodly, for themselves. (Matt 24:42-51)
He knows exactly the number who will be branches in him which will be cut off because they cease to believe or fail to bear fruit. (John 15:6 . and Rom 11:22)
He knows the exact number of those who will endure unto the end. (Matt 10:22)
He knows how many will drink of the rock that is Christ, (1 Cor 10:4) know the way of righteousness, escape the pollutions of this present world, and yet return like a dog to its vomit and a pig to its wallowing in the mire. (2 Pet: 20-21)
Scriptures says "many are called but few are chosen"- so what came first? He did not choose the many from the few. He called Abraham, and chose him because he believed and showed his faith by his obedience in following the call. So God by his foreknowledge has chosen those he knew would answer and follow through to the end. One could arguably maintain that in scripture there seems to be a "chosen" which applies to all who believe the gospel and ente rinto Christ, and another "chosen" group who are called from among them, into ministry or special service. "Cometh the hour , cometh the man"
This is the true understanding of the "Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man". It is plain and simple. There is no need to regard it as some mysterious dichotomy which requires endless books of human wisdom to explain.
In the book of Jeremiah he harangues his people for their injustices socially and declares that HE MADE ALL EQUAL and we should treat all fellow human beings equally. So if he expects that of us, how can I believe that God chooses whom he will bestow his grace upon. It is like someone going to some African tribe, and giving a special gift to one of the many children who possess hardly anything of this modern world's "goodies". That will immediately make the rest think "why is he different?" why is he special". The only way they can come to terms with that is to be told that they earned that gift, by some effort on their part. Most will accept that. even if ten people got a well earned gift. But there is no way you will keep unity if the company is divided by who gets a free gift and who doesn't- all are equal- that is God's law, and is God's character.
The Sovereignty of the "Arminian's God", far outweighs in character the sovereignty of the "Calvinist's God". The latter is of despotic nature, and fulfils his will and purposes by over-riding, dismissing and denying man his sovereignty to make choices. But the Arminian God outwits both satanic and human wills by his Wisdom, and by his Love and Lamb-like nature. He allows man his freedom but has a plan which brings the Apostle Paul to his ecstatic eulogy in Romans ch 11:33-35, For as explained in Romans ch 8 he actually uses the activity of his enemy and man's rebellion, to fulfil his purposes in bringing his children to be conformed to the image of His Son.
God is not a "fixer" who brings us all into a life where we are offered choices, and rewards for obedience and faith, then at the end we find out that the outcome was fixed from the beginning. No doubt the Calvinist would be outraged to hear his beliefs set out in this way, but that is what their doctrine sounds like. They seem to be perplexed to say the least that God should choose individuals before the world began, but think it best to agree that God is God and he can do as he pleases. So they resign to a theory that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man run side by side in parallel lines, and hopefully will meet internity. It sounds slightly patronising to me; especially as the contradictions can be easily removed by accepting that the foreknowledge of God was the first step in the great plan of salvation.
Is not the God who conquers by wisdom and love rather than by right to exert sheer power, worthy of more praise and glory.
Eph 1:5-6
5 Having predestinated (by his foreknowledge) us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
We all understand how God works in mysterious ways and hides things from the wise and prudent etc but to function in the style that the Calvinist suggests is not fitting to the righteous, just and loving God whom I see in the scriptures. To me the Calvinist doctrine almost suggests that He is some kind of secret manipulator. He has apparently written a book which from Genesis to Revelation seems to indicate that his created being, Man, has a free will, and yet according to their belief, God has planned that Man has no chance of altering his eternal destination which God determined before the world began.
God's word says that man cannot please him without faith, but according to the Calvinist it is God who decides to whom he gives the faith in the first place. Is that justice?
I hesitate to even say what this suggests, that like a fixed boxing match, or sports game, the end is predetermined before it starts. No doubt many who follow boxing have seen fights in which the winner is obvious but the verdict is eventually awarded to the obvious loser. What a waste of time that would seem to be. They need not to have fought each other. The gambling fraternity, or similar, no doubt had something to do with it, and the anguished cry goes up "Fixed".
One can seek to balance one's interperetation of "the sovereignty of God" with the "responsibility of man", but who can honestly marry these two statements. If a man is dead (in trespasses and sins) and has no way of revitalising himself, how on earth (or in heaven) can he be responsible. I would love an explanation. It is not sufficient to argue that everyone deserves to go to Hell, for a God of LOVE & Righteousness created all beings.
So to believe he made them all fully knowing that most of those created in his own image would be dragged down into Hell by his rival, surely is to portray God as a despot.
Does God love some people more than others? Obviously he does, if Calvinism is to be believed. ("Jacob have I loved" etc- explained later) So every preacher who tells their audience that God loves them should surely qualify that statement if he is to say what he really believes, which is "if God has chosen you, God loves you"
It sounds like a father who tells his six children that he loves them all equally but in fact has stashed away secretly a £60million fortune for ONE particular child.
Those who play football will understand this parable concerning opposing managers: .
There are two ways to beat the opposition:
One is by wisdom, and strategy, anticipating or knowing what the opposition is likely to do.
The other is to secretly (mysteriously) nobble the goalkeeper of the other team by blackmailing him and bribing him. One of those managers could well be described as "Sovereign" as he determined the end before it began, because he had the money and knowledge of the opposing players "weaknesses" (power) to do so.
This basic thought leads on to thinking that the teams that win the league each years are determined beforehand, so all the effort and dedication of thousands of footballers and their supporters is totally in vain.
Who is God able to save?
Surely under the Calvinist view of the sovereignty of God, then he could in fact save everyone by giving "saving faith" to all sinners. When in Romans ch 5 Paul speaks about the "gift" coming to as many as inherited "death" from Adam, then what "gift is he talking about?
I shudder to pen the following words but do Calvinists believe that "God does not have enough grace to cover all sin?" Simply quoting some verse from Romans ch 9, out of context, does not answer that question. Surely is shows a misunderstanding of Romans ch 9, because it does not fit into the rest of scripture.
Did not Jesus atone for all with his blood? Does not scripture say that he is the Saviour of all men.
1 Tim 4:10
10 who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Does it not say that Jesus died for all in 2 Cor 5:15.
1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
and again, most emphatically;
I Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
In the light of the above scriptures, what right has the Calvinist to teach that Jesus only died for the church? (based on a misinterpretation of "His name shall be called Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins") This is known as "Limited Atonement". But it not only limits the efficacy of the work of Christ but also limits the grace of God. How near to heresy can you get?
I am quite prepared to be wrong in my "Foreknowledge " doctrine concerning God's sovereignty, but I would much rather be wrong, labelled as an Arminian than as a Calvinist. The latter I am sure think they are magnifying the glory of God in showing due defference, but surely God deserves more glory for his wisdom and love in allowing man his freedom to choose and believe, yet still win their hearts.
Did God purposefully create millions just to make them suffer eternally, so that by contrast he could show his abundant grace to a few?
Did he say to Satan; "Here is my wonderful supreme creation- Man, made in our own image. So welcome Satan- come in and ruin the vast majority of them for eternity. I only want a few of them?
Even such questions are ridiculous.
Calvinism is adamant that man has nothing to do or accomplish towards his ultimate salvation- seemingly it matters not how one behaves. But note this warning from Peter, whom we have quoted above re foreknowledge.
Pet 1:10
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
Later Peter speaks of those who go astray from the right way in these damning terms;
2 Pet 2:15: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
All will make their own choices, to “continue to believe” or not to continue;
Acts 28:24:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
N.B. the word “believe”. in scripture is in the “present, continuous" tense. and means “He that continues to believe", has everlasting life, because faith is the life of God. If a person stops believing, how can they be saved?
To merely say that everlasting life is everlasting is not an answer that covers all scripture. The Life of God is faith and faith is the life of God. All life has to be maintained. The father may care for the child he has given life to but he cant stop the child from not eating or eating things which will shorten his life.
Obviously the writers to the epistles were convinced that faith did need to be protected and maintained.
Col 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
We all believe in "Eternal Security" but if a person stops believing or believes the wrong facts, how can they be saved?. I think Paul and the other New Testament writers knew that perfectly well, otherwise why did they write, with such passion and concern?
The calvinist will argue that the backsliders were never saved in the first place, so why did the apostles waste so much time on trying to advise them. They could just as easily have told those who had confessed to believing the gospel he preached to them, that now "they are saved forever, and none shall pluck them out of God's hands. and there is no danger of them being lost"
Any christian who fully understands Romans and Galatians will never doubt their salvation and will confess to a full assurance of eternal security.
They rejoice as much in the grace of God just as much as the Calvinist who sometimes seems to give the impression that it is just for them. Apparently the minority aspect of their number they think enlarges the grace and glorifies God (somehow?).
It should be remembered that Paul was a Jew, preaching to both Jews and Gentiles, so he continually addressed them as the "chosen" people. Simply to emphasise the massive truth which had been revealed to him concerning Israel, that was once regarded as the chosen nation. But Paul goes to great personal pains in telling his fellow jews that the only ones who were true children of Abraham, were not those who were circumcised in the flesh but those who had the same faith as Abraham, by which he was able to count as righteous before Him. Which turned out to be but a remnant- a few. Many were called but few were chosen.
The Bible speaks of "rewards". By definition they are earned. So everything cannot be of grace. To maintain one's faith when you suffer for righteousness sake, should merit what Jesus promised."great is your reward in heaven". Surely faith and obedience will be rewarded.
Once saved always saved?
Jesus said that "Wisdom is justified of her children". One of the children of Calvinism is that unscriptural phrase "Once saved always saved". For if you take Calvinism as truth and people are chosen before the foundation of the world, then nothing they do will effect their eternal salvation. To back that up "Non shall pluck them out of my Hand" is oft quoted, when Jesus was talking in context of sheep obeying his voice and following him.This may be a wonderful "saving" scripture but only for those who continue to believe it. It is a wonderful comforting word to be told that God chose you, but not so comforting to think he may have not chosen your mother or child, especially if you have spent many years praying for them.
One of the great Calvinist's of all time was C.H. Spurgeon. Someone I revere, admire and indeed read his daily notes. His sermons are well preserved and as relevant today as when he was alive. But let me show you a page of those notes, where he is advocating the belief that "Once saved always saved" If you did not know the scriptures which warn against backsliding then I am sure it would be a great comfort and assurance if someone tells you that you are saved forever. Ironically, it is not a bad thing to believe, for if we are saved by faith, you could well be saved forever simply by believing such.
(I didn't know I was pigeon-holed as an Arminian until a Calvinist friend (of which I have quite a few) told me of the conflict.
I have noticed that whenever a Calvinist preacher comes across the word “chosen” during his sermon or exposition, they almost always feel obliged to explain “this difficult subject of election”. Those who attended Keswick Convention in Aug 2012 will have heard these very words come from, that excellent preacher Jeremy McCloid from Aberdeen, who throughout his week of preaching on Thessalonians, was not slow to quote from many contemporary renowned preachers such as Carson, Piper and Keller etc; who obviously all have the same difficulty, otherwise he would have surely quoted a simple explanation from one of them.
As a great reader of C.H. Spurgeon, I am well aware of his calvinistic beliefs, but here is a very revealing quote, from the great man himself regarding this problem;
Sept 5th Evening note from "Morning and Evening" readings.-
"Have you entered into the springs of the sea?" Job 38:16
"Some things in nature must remain a mystery to the most intelligent and enterprising investigators. Human knowledge has bounds beyond which it cannot pass. Universal knowledge is for God alone. If this be so in the things which are seen and temporal, one may rest assured that it is even more so in matters spiritual and eternal. Why, then, have I been torturing my brain with speculations as to destiny and will, fixed fate, and human responsibility? (Ed. predestination and the will of man)
These deep and dark truths. I am no more able to comprehend them than to find out the depth which couches beneath, from which old Ocean draws her watery stores. Why am I so curious to know the reason of my Lords Providence is, the motive of his actions, the design of his visitations? "
If Spurgeon had problems, then lesser mortals have no chance of giving a reason for their Calvinistic faith.
It is patently obvious that this great man, and most Calvnists cannot reconcile these two "biblical" truths. Hence their analogical explanation as two seemingly separate parellel lines, which will meet in eternity- beyond man's present perceptions.
But there IS a SIMPLE EXPLANATION. It is only difficult if you misunderstand certain scriptures, such as Romans ch.9.
We all believe in election and predestination, but how we interpret them differs radically.
Peter says “elect according to the foreknowledge of God”.
Paul says "Those he did foreknow, he did predestinate."
There you have it. God elected those whom he foreknew would have faith in Him and his word. – end of difficulty!.
The main reason the word "chosen" appears so much in the new Testament is merely because under the NEW Testament, the Gentiles were included in "the chosen". and it has more to do with purpose than preference. Such adjectives are usually accompanied by "to be holy" or similar. God chose and called the Israelites unto himself for the same purpose. He desired they should be different from all other nations, who were unholy.
But please note that The Jews all thought they were “chosen” children of Abraham, because they were circumcised and followed the Jewish religion, based on the law of Moses. But the New Testament bombshell that Paul threw into the chambers of the Jewish religion's heirarchy, was that ONLY those who had the faith of Abraham were chosen, and were the true children of Abraham. The only works that counted were those done in and after faith- hence the list of Old Testament heroes, accepted by God, in Hebrews ch 11-(especially written to Jews)
It was not their works that saved them, but their FAITH. Faith alone saved them. Hence the connundrum “faith alone saves, but faith alone does not save”. Lightning alone kills you but lightning alone will not kill you, unless it is accompanied by thunder. The thunder does not kill you- only the lightning. The work that should follow faith for salvation is "rest", according to Hebrews. If you don't rest in your salvation, you must still be working
In normal life we all live according to our faith. We would not eat, travel, sleep or anything else if we did not believe we would be safe. Our whole economy is based on faith. Billions per year are lost through fraud and deception.
So our faith is revealed in our works. Before the foundation of the world, God chose to save those he knew would live out their faith in God and his word by obedience, simply because he foreknew every last one of them. That has always been God’s sovereign plan- not the despotic, conniving, manipulating plan expounded with obvious difficulty by Calvinists, bless ‘em!
He planned to save everyone who went into the Ark, who responded to Noah's message of Righteousness and warning of Judgement. (Incidentally, we read that those who only had the revelation of nature and conscience to believe, heard the full gospel while in Hell- but we will not pursue this mystery in this context; or you could ask your nearest calvinist))
God had a plan to choose only those who themselves would choose to believe in His Son Jesus Christ.
There is no great mystery to such a plan. He has revealed it unto babes. Spurgeon troubled his mind unnecessarialy and the great Calvinist preachers of today, need not count such truths as Predestination and the Sovereignty of God as a "great problem.
More books have been written on Calvinism, I would guess, than any other subject of Scripture. It confirms the amount of scripture that they find difficult to accept without literary gymnastics. A classic example is that some writers interpret the word "if" in Hebrews as "because"- what does that tell you?
Whenever you go on a Grace or Calvinist forum on line and ask questions such as "at what age is a child chosen? " or "will more be lost than saved?- more often than no, t you will be advised to read a book.
And ironically, if you persist asking questions you will probably be banned from the forum, as has happened to me more than once, This on a "grace" forum as well !!
This has been a very brief and probably inadequate apology, as I doubt if anything more could be expressed by quoting three quarters of the Bible or a thousand human writers. So it is totally inadequate and fails miserably to answer the vast works of Calvin, Spurgeon and MLJ, who seemed obliged to explain their reasonings in minute detail; such as only the highly intelligent can understand. Thankfully God in his wisdom and knowledge of simple souls like myself has made the gospel easy to understand, yet profound enough to touch the depth of each believer's heart and set his feet on the right path of Holiness and obedience.
If you are not inclined towards reading the rest of my ramblings on this subject then should you have any questions, I would be happy to try to answer them without launching into a long argument. Please the window on the home page
One of the children of Calvinism is the non biblical phrase, "Once saved always saved" -(O>S>A>S)
I will deal with that on another page. n the meantime you can hunt the New testament for any scraps of knowledge that might suggest such a belief.
All that is written above is more a summary of the rest of the notes than a preamble. But the rest of the notes, though slightly jumbled are the thought processes to the above conclusions. So if you can bear it, read on......
........................................................
We all believe in predestination, and that God is Sovereign and chooses according to his own counsel and will.
So let me state the questions I put to my Calvinist friends;
We all believe in Predestination;
But whom does God predestinate? (an honest answer may help here)
We all believe in Election:
but Whom did God “elect”? (please answer)
Romans 8 tells us that he predestinated those he foreknew.
Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Peter addresses his letter to the “Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God”
1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Therefore the key question surely is; What did God need to foreknow before he pre-destinated or elected? (it would be good if the reader would consider his or her answer before they read on)
I have also noticed that when the Calvinist "sheep" seek to justify their belief in "predestination" that most of the scriptures they quote are merely endorsing God's foreknowledge- e.g. I saw you in the womb- chose or called you as a prophet etc.
God’s thoughts are always forethoughts, he knows the end from the beginning. He had the medicine in the cupboard long before the man-child got sick, though it was never his perfect will for man to get "sick", for The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
It is within his "foreknowledge" that we see the true understanding of the Sovereignty of God, for his knowledge outshines all other knowledge. It is foreknowledge. The end from the beginning.
We all believe in Predestination and we all believe the bible teaches the sovereignty of God, but some, I believe have a warped understanding of such sovereignty, for the Calvinist viewpoint is that man has not got a free will. This surely makes most of the bible a total farce.
So let us address the problem of Sovereignty as briefly as possible, in contrast may I add, to the Calvinist books on the subject which would stretch a few times around the world if placed side by side.
God is a God of Wisdom, Love and Power. He is supreme in all three attributes.
His wisdom outweighs all human and satanic wisdom. That is why he can afford to give to both human and satanic forces "freedom" to do their damnest, for he will accomplish his purposes by His LOVE. He does not need to conspire mysteriously, nor to act in a despotic way to show his sovereignty. His sovereignty conquers all other sovereignty. He is King of KINGS- not zombies. His Love & Wisdom constrain them to bow the knee and cast their crowns before him.
The scripture states that in the Kingdom, the Lion will sit down with the Lamb. We might well ask, how can this be? Is it done by compromise? Does the Lion become less ferocious and the Lamb more ferocious? How incongruous is that? Surely anyone could dethrone a lamb, as easilly as to chase a cat off the settee or the dog off a bed. Both may seem incongruous to many. So what mysterious power has enabled a lamb to conquer all who cast their crowns willingly before Him? The answer must surely be obvious.
The Calvinist may deny that man is Sovereign. But the scriptures clearly indicate that this is what makes man such an amazing created being.
Further, is not Jesus, "King of Kings" (who obviously are sovereign) so who are the Kings that he is King over? There were plenty of Kings in the Bible.
The Psalmist says that man has been “crowned” with glory and honour. The apostles cast their crowns before the throne in Revelation.
Jesus even quoted the Psalmist when he said of man, “You are gods”- No strings attached, no zombies, “free agents”. Made as a trinity in God’s image- Father Holy Spirit, Son = Spirit, Soul and Body. This sovereignty is the greatest marvel of man as a created being.
Constantly throughout scripture God offers mankind choices and decisions. Are we to believe that God overules such choices and myseriously exerts his own will? If that were so, there should not be any evil in the world.
When Moses gave God's chosen people the Law, He told his chosen people that they had a choice between blessing and curses. Blessing if they obeyed the commandments and curses if they didn't. The last word in the Old Testament is "curse", which sums up exactly how the majority of God's "chosen" people finished up.
Joshua chose to serve the Lord, as did the Levites. God judged Israel according to how much they believed his word and OBEYED his commandments.
The Calvinist seems to think that the bible teaches that all true believers were individually chosen and their names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Therefore this infers that the vast majority of God's creatures have really no chance of being saved, unless God chose them then.
But surely it is true that before the foundation of the world, He knew what man would choose to do and made his plans accordingly.
By his foreknowledge, He knows AND HAS ALWAYS KNOWN how many souls will make up the Bride of the Lamb. How many will choose to believe the gospel.
He even knows how many foolish virgins there will be who will allow their lamps of faith to go out because they think the Lord’s return is not imminent. (Matt 25:1-13)
He knows the number of those in the Lord’s service who will “feed the household” as the Lord commanded but who will tire of giving and serving, especially as the Lord delays his coming and shall go and start feasting and drinking with the ungodly, for themselves. (Matt 24:42-51)
He knows exactly the number who will be branches in him which will be cut off because they cease to believe or fail to bear fruit. (John 15:6 . and Rom 11:22)
He knows the exact number of those who will endure unto the end. (Matt 10:22)
He knows how many will drink of the rock that is Christ, (1 Cor 10:4) know the way of righteousness, escape the pollutions of this present world, and yet return like a dog to its vomit and a pig to its wallowing in the mire. (2 Pet: 20-21)
Scriptures says "many are called but few are chosen"- so what came first? He did not choose the many from the few. He called Abraham, and chose him because he believed and showed his faith by his obedience in following the call. So God by his foreknowledge has chosen those he knew would answer and follow through to the end. One could arguably maintain that in scripture there seems to be a "chosen" which applies to all who believe the gospel and ente rinto Christ, and another "chosen" group who are called from among them, into ministry or special service. "Cometh the hour , cometh the man"
This is the true understanding of the "Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man". It is plain and simple. There is no need to regard it as some mysterious dichotomy which requires endless books of human wisdom to explain.
In the book of Jeremiah he harangues his people for their injustices socially and declares that HE MADE ALL EQUAL and we should treat all fellow human beings equally. So if he expects that of us, how can I believe that God chooses whom he will bestow his grace upon. It is like someone going to some African tribe, and giving a special gift to one of the many children who possess hardly anything of this modern world's "goodies". That will immediately make the rest think "why is he different?" why is he special". The only way they can come to terms with that is to be told that they earned that gift, by some effort on their part. Most will accept that. even if ten people got a well earned gift. But there is no way you will keep unity if the company is divided by who gets a free gift and who doesn't- all are equal- that is God's law, and is God's character.
The Sovereignty of the "Arminian's God", far outweighs in character the sovereignty of the "Calvinist's God". The latter is of despotic nature, and fulfils his will and purposes by over-riding, dismissing and denying man his sovereignty to make choices. But the Arminian God outwits both satanic and human wills by his Wisdom, and by his Love and Lamb-like nature. He allows man his freedom but has a plan which brings the Apostle Paul to his ecstatic eulogy in Romans ch 11:33-35, For as explained in Romans ch 8 he actually uses the activity of his enemy and man's rebellion, to fulfil his purposes in bringing his children to be conformed to the image of His Son.
God is not a "fixer" who brings us all into a life where we are offered choices, and rewards for obedience and faith, then at the end we find out that the outcome was fixed from the beginning. No doubt the Calvinist would be outraged to hear his beliefs set out in this way, but that is what their doctrine sounds like. They seem to be perplexed to say the least that God should choose individuals before the world began, but think it best to agree that God is God and he can do as he pleases. So they resign to a theory that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man run side by side in parallel lines, and hopefully will meet internity. It sounds slightly patronising to me; especially as the contradictions can be easily removed by accepting that the foreknowledge of God was the first step in the great plan of salvation.
Is not the God who conquers by wisdom and love rather than by right to exert sheer power, worthy of more praise and glory.
Eph 1:5-6
5 Having predestinated (by his foreknowledge) us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
We all understand how God works in mysterious ways and hides things from the wise and prudent etc but to function in the style that the Calvinist suggests is not fitting to the righteous, just and loving God whom I see in the scriptures. To me the Calvinist doctrine almost suggests that He is some kind of secret manipulator. He has apparently written a book which from Genesis to Revelation seems to indicate that his created being, Man, has a free will, and yet according to their belief, God has planned that Man has no chance of altering his eternal destination which God determined before the world began.
God's word says that man cannot please him without faith, but according to the Calvinist it is God who decides to whom he gives the faith in the first place. Is that justice?
I hesitate to even say what this suggests, that like a fixed boxing match, or sports game, the end is predetermined before it starts. No doubt many who follow boxing have seen fights in which the winner is obvious but the verdict is eventually awarded to the obvious loser. What a waste of time that would seem to be. They need not to have fought each other. The gambling fraternity, or similar, no doubt had something to do with it, and the anguished cry goes up "Fixed".
One can seek to balance one's interperetation of "the sovereignty of God" with the "responsibility of man", but who can honestly marry these two statements. If a man is dead (in trespasses and sins) and has no way of revitalising himself, how on earth (or in heaven) can he be responsible. I would love an explanation. It is not sufficient to argue that everyone deserves to go to Hell, for a God of LOVE & Righteousness created all beings.
So to believe he made them all fully knowing that most of those created in his own image would be dragged down into Hell by his rival, surely is to portray God as a despot.
Does God love some people more than others? Obviously he does, if Calvinism is to be believed. ("Jacob have I loved" etc- explained later) So every preacher who tells their audience that God loves them should surely qualify that statement if he is to say what he really believes, which is "if God has chosen you, God loves you"
It sounds like a father who tells his six children that he loves them all equally but in fact has stashed away secretly a £60million fortune for ONE particular child.
Those who play football will understand this parable concerning opposing managers: .
There are two ways to beat the opposition:
One is by wisdom, and strategy, anticipating or knowing what the opposition is likely to do.
The other is to secretly (mysteriously) nobble the goalkeeper of the other team by blackmailing him and bribing him. One of those managers could well be described as "Sovereign" as he determined the end before it began, because he had the money and knowledge of the opposing players "weaknesses" (power) to do so.
This basic thought leads on to thinking that the teams that win the league each years are determined beforehand, so all the effort and dedication of thousands of footballers and their supporters is totally in vain.
Who is God able to save?
Surely under the Calvinist view of the sovereignty of God, then he could in fact save everyone by giving "saving faith" to all sinners. When in Romans ch 5 Paul speaks about the "gift" coming to as many as inherited "death" from Adam, then what "gift is he talking about?
I shudder to pen the following words but do Calvinists believe that "God does not have enough grace to cover all sin?" Simply quoting some verse from Romans ch 9, out of context, does not answer that question. Surely is shows a misunderstanding of Romans ch 9, because it does not fit into the rest of scripture.
Did not Jesus atone for all with his blood? Does not scripture say that he is the Saviour of all men.
1 Tim 4:10
10 who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Does it not say that Jesus died for all in 2 Cor 5:15.
1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
and again, most emphatically;
I Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
In the light of the above scriptures, what right has the Calvinist to teach that Jesus only died for the church? (based on a misinterpretation of "His name shall be called Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins") This is known as "Limited Atonement". But it not only limits the efficacy of the work of Christ but also limits the grace of God. How near to heresy can you get?
I am quite prepared to be wrong in my "Foreknowledge " doctrine concerning God's sovereignty, but I would much rather be wrong, labelled as an Arminian than as a Calvinist. The latter I am sure think they are magnifying the glory of God in showing due defference, but surely God deserves more glory for his wisdom and love in allowing man his freedom to choose and believe, yet still win their hearts.
Did God purposefully create millions just to make them suffer eternally, so that by contrast he could show his abundant grace to a few?
Did he say to Satan; "Here is my wonderful supreme creation- Man, made in our own image. So welcome Satan- come in and ruin the vast majority of them for eternity. I only want a few of them?
Even such questions are ridiculous.
Calvinism is adamant that man has nothing to do or accomplish towards his ultimate salvation- seemingly it matters not how one behaves. But note this warning from Peter, whom we have quoted above re foreknowledge.
Pet 1:10
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
Later Peter speaks of those who go astray from the right way in these damning terms;
2 Pet 2:15: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
All will make their own choices, to “continue to believe” or not to continue;
Acts 28:24:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
N.B. the word “believe”. in scripture is in the “present, continuous" tense. and means “He that continues to believe", has everlasting life, because faith is the life of God. If a person stops believing, how can they be saved?
To merely say that everlasting life is everlasting is not an answer that covers all scripture. The Life of God is faith and faith is the life of God. All life has to be maintained. The father may care for the child he has given life to but he cant stop the child from not eating or eating things which will shorten his life.
Obviously the writers to the epistles were convinced that faith did need to be protected and maintained.
Col 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
We all believe in "Eternal Security" but if a person stops believing or believes the wrong facts, how can they be saved?. I think Paul and the other New Testament writers knew that perfectly well, otherwise why did they write, with such passion and concern?
The calvinist will argue that the backsliders were never saved in the first place, so why did the apostles waste so much time on trying to advise them. They could just as easily have told those who had confessed to believing the gospel he preached to them, that now "they are saved forever, and none shall pluck them out of God's hands. and there is no danger of them being lost"
Any christian who fully understands Romans and Galatians will never doubt their salvation and will confess to a full assurance of eternal security.
They rejoice as much in the grace of God just as much as the Calvinist who sometimes seems to give the impression that it is just for them. Apparently the minority aspect of their number they think enlarges the grace and glorifies God (somehow?).
It should be remembered that Paul was a Jew, preaching to both Jews and Gentiles, so he continually addressed them as the "chosen" people. Simply to emphasise the massive truth which had been revealed to him concerning Israel, that was once regarded as the chosen nation. But Paul goes to great personal pains in telling his fellow jews that the only ones who were true children of Abraham, were not those who were circumcised in the flesh but those who had the same faith as Abraham, by which he was able to count as righteous before Him. Which turned out to be but a remnant- a few. Many were called but few were chosen.
The Bible speaks of "rewards". By definition they are earned. So everything cannot be of grace. To maintain one's faith when you suffer for righteousness sake, should merit what Jesus promised."great is your reward in heaven". Surely faith and obedience will be rewarded.
Once saved always saved?
Jesus said that "Wisdom is justified of her children". One of the children of Calvinism is that unscriptural phrase "Once saved always saved". For if you take Calvinism as truth and people are chosen before the foundation of the world, then nothing they do will effect their eternal salvation. To back that up "Non shall pluck them out of my Hand" is oft quoted, when Jesus was talking in context of sheep obeying his voice and following him.This may be a wonderful "saving" scripture but only for those who continue to believe it. It is a wonderful comforting word to be told that God chose you, but not so comforting to think he may have not chosen your mother or child, especially if you have spent many years praying for them.
One of the great Calvinist's of all time was C.H. Spurgeon. Someone I revere, admire and indeed read his daily notes. His sermons are well preserved and as relevant today as when he was alive. But let me show you a page of those notes, where he is advocating the belief that "Once saved always saved" If you did not know the scriptures which warn against backsliding then I am sure it would be a great comfort and assurance if someone tells you that you are saved forever. Ironically, it is not a bad thing to believe, for if we are saved by faith, you could well be saved forever simply by believing such.
"Bought with his blood" -check above notes re Who is God able to save? and for whom did Christ die.
I am surprised that the great C.H. does not seem to see any difference between the word Everlasting and Eternal. Faith is eternal, but that can die out in man on this earth. His adamant OTT statement re not perishing is typical of those who shout loudest, on their weakest point. If you have the life of God- which is Faith (IN Christ) then indeed there is no possibility of perishing. But if you cannot lose that faith why the need for all the epistles, and the many warnings, plus the verses mentioned on this page later? The Lord's sheep are those that come to the Father by faith. Ps 2 tells us that He gives such to his son as an inheritance. The bible speaks clearly about sheep going astray. Fools they may be but lots of believers wander off into worldly beliefs, or start looking to their good works and inadvertently almost, begin to trust in them for their salvation. This is the very reason Paul wrote Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, and Peter wrote his epistles- whose commission was to Feed the Lord's sheep. |
This sounds ridiculous to me; Did he never read the rest of the bible and how God dealt with his "chosen". Paul says HE CUT THEM OFF because of their unbelief. Jeremiah and Ezekiel tell us clearly what God did with the covenant he made with his "chosen people"
Paul tells us clearly that all his promises to Israel were fulfilled in Jesus Christ and his remnant. The true Israel are those "IN Christ Jesus". The true children of Abraham are those justifed by faith as he was. They were chosen "in Him" before the foundation of the world. just as God predestined the salvation of all who entered into Noah's ark. He foreknew who they would be. He no longer sees us and our sin, for we are hidden in the ark which is Christ. He sees Jesus and his righteousness in whom we are hidden. PLEASE NOTE: (to be fair...) Check out the extra page on Spurgeon's notes on Sanctification. He does not fail to warn believers that the "chosen" are called unto Holiness, and their behaviour is as important as their belief in this respect. |
But if the above already quoted verses which refer to backsliders has not registered in this context of OSAS, check out these; Could they possibly have been written by someone who believed that once you are saved, you are always saved, because having been chosen you can't be "un-chosen"?
Thessalonians prophesies that at the end times there will be a great falling away. (From what?)
Find a two letter word in the following verse that denotes a promise with conditions
Exod 19:5
5 Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Rom 11:22
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
1 Tim 2:15
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Tim 4:16 (Paul writing to Timothy)
16 Take heed unto yourself and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you.
Phil 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I Jn 2:24-26
24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us-- even eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.(NIV)
John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Paul speaking of himself, kept his bodily appetites in subjection, to ensure he himself was never to become a castaway. 1 Cor 9:27
Paul even warned those who felt they were strong in faith. "Let him that thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall" 1 Cor 10:12
Notice what he says at the beginning of the chapter in warning the Corinthian believers- please read it all but here's a snatch
1 Cor 10:5-6
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
If you have read these verses carefully you surely must be persuaded that it does not sound as if these truths were written by someone who believed in "once saved always saved." It is not unusual to hear a preacher of calvinist persuasion, when preaching on these verses, to have to divert to a half-hour justification of OSAS doctrine, or point you to a book that explains it more fully.
It is quite clear that God gave up on his chosen after a few thousand years and cut the majority off, leaving but a remnant of believers.
Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul is thinking here of the "work" of the Law. Now we are under grace. God has elected those he foreknew.
The phrase "election of grace" holds no subtle meaning other than God chose to pour his grace upon those who would believe.
Also note that in Hosea God "weeps" over Israel because of their backslliding, when he predicts their forthcoming doom.
Hosea 11:8
8 How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
Now dear reader, were they crocodile feelings in his heart? for surely according to Calvinistic belief re the sovereignty of God he could have predestined them to a better end.
He gave wonderful promises to Ephraim concerning their salvation but according to Paul they were all fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Only the remnant who believed entered that promised blessing. He said, "Not all jews are jews and not all Israel is Israel"
Rom 9:66 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. (NIV)
also
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
It is certain that whoever wrote Hebrews did not believe that the Jews who had first believed were saved forever. Some of the sternest warnings to backsliders is recorded in this epistle. Two early examples;
Heb 2:1
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Heb 3:6
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Finally, does not the book of revelation warn the church, of the possibility of their names being blotted out of the book of life?
I could give you another 200 such statements and warnings from Scripture, re the need to keep believing and not be led astray by false teaching.
The whole of scripture is littered with statements concerning man's responsibility for what he chooses to believe. So it is little wonder that there is such a proponderence of books written by Calvinists seeking to explain their beliefs based upon 999th part of scripture. They speak like parrots in terms of believing in the "Sovereignty of God and the "responsibility of man". But if you probe deep enough into what they mean or perceive as the Sovereignty of God, you have to come to the conclusion that man has not the slightest part to play in his salvation. They maintain and preach with thunderous authority that God chooses, and God gives faith to those he chooses. This they define as the "Amazing grace of God". It is so amazing that they seek to forget that he must have chosen trillions of his created beings to suffer eternally in hell.
To maintain that when a man chooses to believe, he is "doing" something towards his salvation" is not only unscriptural but plain daft to me. (Note how in the statements at the beginning of this page, is used the non-scriptural words "savingly believe".)
That belief is certainly unscriptural,- Paul definitely never believed it. He clearly says that faith is not a work. If it was a work it would need to be rewarded, but God has made salvation by faith (not of works) so that he might shower his grace (undeserved favour) upon those who believe in Jesus.
Check these;
Rom 4:2-5
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-- but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.(NIV)
Rom 4:16
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-- not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. (NIV)
To justify their belief that faith is a gift from God the Calvinist will quote Eph 2.
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Firstly, Paul is speaking of salvation - and that is what he is referring to as "the gift", (as per Rom 5 and Rom 6:23) which accords with other scriptures.
In order to back up their belief, they maintain that this particular faith is different from other kinds of faith, they call it saving faith. you will notice in the first line of the chart stating their beliefs is the non-scriptural word "savingly". It is not apparently sufficient to believe to be saved, one must "savingly believe". This kind of saving faith is different from the faith that people whom Jesus healed, commended, when he said "YOUR faith has healed you". I guess it is different even from the faith that we read of in Hebrews ch 11, which was exercised by many Old Testament heroes who did great things for God. Ironically Hebrews is all about Salvation, but never mentions "saving" faith, and gives the fiercest warnings to backsliders to be found in scripture. Why go to such extremes if the writer believed that such had never been given "the saving faith of endurance" by God, in the first place.
How can a righteous God condemn to eternal flames millions because they had no faith, when He himself decided to whom he would give this special faith in the first place. Little wonder the calvinist preacher will speak of this "difficult problem of election."
They would maintain that "Saving"faith is definitely not the simple faith of a child, such as we all exercise every minute of our lives.
For surely, as true as every breath in our body is a gift from God so surely faith must be and is a gift, for faith is the most obvious fact of the human "psyche", for basically man is a skin full of beliefs. There is not one part of life, or an activity that is not based upon faith. EVERYONE has been given faith. Every child believes so easily. They are easily deceived. £90 billion is lost each year through fraud. People believe in someone or something but their faith is unfounded. People travel believing they will not die in the process but millions are killed simply because they set out on a journey. All relationships are based upon what we believe about each other. Every dispute, fight or war is based upon beliefs. The list is endless because the greatest proof that man is a spiritual being made by God, who is a Spirit, is that we have been made in his image with His personal spiritual characteristics, for Faith is the very life of God.
Just as man by his physical life energy can build a house so God by his life energy -FAITH, he created the universe.
In the natural we can say "that we all live by faith". In the Spiritual when we apply that same ability to believe, we choose to believe in God's word and are thereby justified in God's sight. To believe is the simplest thing that any human being can "do".
To believe that God gives faith to those individuals he has chosen, makes mockery of scores of scriptures such as;"Without faith it impossible to please God" or "Those who come to God must believe that he is and a rewarder of those who diligently seek him"
From this same passage in Eph 2 the Calvinist believes that as man is dead in trespasses and sin, then a dead man cannot even hear the gospel, let alone believe it, unless they are first regenerated (born again) by the Holy Spirit.
Now while that may seem logical, in addition to our comments at the top of this page, where is the righteousness and justice in condemning men for being dead, if they were born dead. To say that all men are condemned and deserve to go to hell in the first place is not commensurate with the belief that God could with his sovereign power re-create anyone and everyone, nor with John 3:16. Is he to regenerate them before he judges them? It reminds me of a booklet which was published by the protestant truth society, many years ago, titled "the history of the Popes". On one occasion a new pope dug up a previous dead pope and sat him on the throne and judged him. I know it sounds like fiction, but the calvinist belief has the same sound to me. Will the sinner be dead in Hell? Hell is separation from God. So he must come alive spiritually to God to know any judgmental suffering of separation from God. Methinks the calvinist does not quite understand, body, soul and spirit too well.
One of the great passages much loved by Calvinists is Ephesians ch 1. But please ask yourself why the words “in Him” occur some 12 times in the first 14 verses of Ephesians. God predestined all who chose to enter Noah's ark to be saved.
God knew the names of those who would believe and had them written in the Lamb’s book of life before the world began. He also knows the number of those whose names will be blotted out from that book because they were not overcomers” (Rev 3:5.)
A name cannot be blotted out unless it is first IN. This is not a point greatly emphasised by Calvinists.
So if God has predestined anyone, he has predestined those IN Christ. So how do we get "INto" Christ. The Calvinist says Sovereign God chose us and then put us into Christ. If that is the case, you might as well chuck Hebrews out of the Bible- Paul exhorts the Hebrews to enter into Christ or be lost. and even when we are "IN Christ" Jesus said we had to remain in Him. Those who didn't would be cut off and cast into the fire.
Calvin was a great reformer, but was coming out of Romanism, which has predestination as one of the most fundamental universal doctrines. They maintain that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. All Catholics were predestined to be born Catholics. Calvin probably believed this himself, so if he was to disassociate himself from the Catholic church he would no doubt seek to show how he and his fellow reformers and followers were also predestined according to the foreknowledge of God. As in most revivals there have been reports of the great Deceiver revealing his lies and substitutes, so one should not discount the thought that the devil was active even in the Reformation. Not everything that came from the Reformation was pure golden truth. Calvin apparently looked to Augustine, who lived over a milleneum earlier. Why must everything that Augustine taught be right?
A similar thing is seen in John Wesley, (an arminian) He came out, or was thrown out, of the Church of England, but maintained his belief in infant baptism. Which is unscriptural.
From what I have read I get a picture of Calvin himself as being of the same ilk as the God he believed in. Having once allowed a christian to be executed when a letter from Calvin was all that was needed to save him. How true that is I don't know, and find it hard to believe of any child of God. I do know personally that when I have engaged with some calvinists on so-called "GRACE" forums, I have not been tolerated for very long and expelled by the moderator. Amazing grace!
Romans chs 9-11. (There is an added page on Romans ch 9- click)
Finally, let's look at the most controversial passages in Romans ch 9-1l. If you are not familiar with them - please read them over and over again many times and ask yourself, within the context of the whole epistle- What is Paul trying to say?. Having written his great essay on the Gospel, what was he trying to explain, and who was he speaking to? edit
The situation is this;
Paul has written his explanation of the Gospel to the Gentiles, who were once not among God's chosen people, but now they were. So the natural question surely is "What's happened to the Jews then? Has God cast away his people? Answer: No- not entirely for He has, as promised, left a remnant.
Paul suffered greatly because of the mighty revelation that God had revealed to Him. I guarantee that it even came as an almighty shock to this hebrew of Hebrews. God showed him that the only real Jews, or Israelites were those who like their Father Abraham, had faith.
The Jews may go up in arms when they are told that not all Israel are Israel (Rom 9:6) or that a Jew is not one because he is circumcised (Rom 2:28) They may cry in shock horror to be told that all the chosen were not really children of Abraham, but only those who believed. They may claim that God has moved the goalposts of salvation, but his chosen people has always been and will always be those who believe in their Messiah Saviour (Jesus) and that God always promised through the prophets that the gentiles would see the light of salvation as well. They might throw their toys out of the pram because they have never seen this truth before, but (and this is the thrust of this chapter) God is Sovereign God and the clay can't argue with the potter. He has not moved the goalposts, it is just that the Jews thought it was a hockey match, when all along it was a football match. That is what he had always intended and if they hadn’t been so disobedient or answering him back all the time they might have seen it earlier. But because of their unbelief, the natural nation of Israel has been cut off but all Jews who believe in Jesus will be accepted in the beloved, just like everyone else.
God knew Pharoah’s hard heart before he was born. He hardened it to show his own power over the strongest will of man. God knew the Jews would use the contemporary Roman means of execution to be rid of Jesus. He knew that Judas would eventually side with his Pharisee father, Simon, and betray Jesus. He did not make them choose to do such things.
He loved Jacob but hated Esau: If that confuses you, it may help you to understand by remembering that Jesus said if you did not HATE your mother and father you could not be his disciple. Was Jesus advocating the breaking of the fifth commandment? Of course he was not; - so what did he mean when he said "hate".?
To understand you have to understand greek and hebrew, for some words actually mean opposites. for example "Devoted" also means "accursed"- you can't be devoted to someone, unless you count everything else accursed. Levi means "joined" but also "separated" To be joined to God you must be separated from the world. This is the meaning of Hate in Romans and in Jesus's statement. It merely is a means of emphasis. God's love (grace) was so much poured out on Jacob (Israel) that in comparison Esau was hated. If you check out how both Jacob and God blessed Esau you will see that this is borne out. Even today the Arab nations are prospering in material wealth. What he saw in Jacob was faith. Faith believes in the invisible. Esau credited no value to his spiritual, invisible birthright, he preferred a mess of pottage to satisfy his flesh.
It is worth noting that slap bang in the middle of these chapters we have the oft repeated word "Whosoever"
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
and at the end of ch 9 we read in verse 33.
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
I doubt if more un-calvinistic verses can be found in scripture, especially Paul setting down the necessity for there to be preachers for the unsaved (the dead!) to hear
UNfortunately it takes a 2" thick book by a Calvinist to explain why "Whosoever" does not really mean anyone at all- just the chosen, who have been given the faith to believe and a desperate repentant heart to cry for salvation. Of course the chapters tell us that they need a preacher to tell them that God has chosen them. But I know of some Calvinists who don't even believe they need an evangelist. But when you come to think of it, surely that is the logical conclusion if you believe in the Calvinistic version of the Sovereignty of God.
The Calvinist, I guess, really believes he is giving to God the glory and majesty that is his, compared to sinful unregenerate man, dead in trespasses and sins. This emphasis on Grace is quickly interpreted as the abundant LOVE of God, for God IS LOVE.
If the scripture says that God is not willing that any should perish,(2 Peter 3:9) and that Jesus is the Saviour of all men (1 Tim 4:10) what conclusion should be drawn if this plan of redemption is motivated by love, and carried out by an almighty Sovereign God, who works all things according to his will by deciding to whom he will give the faith that saves them? Surely the Universalist (who believes that everyone will be saved in the end) is nearer the truth and probably the opposite to calvinism, more than Arminianism.
As education is a closer relative of pride than truth, and that God has a way of hiding truths from the wise and prudent and revealing them unto babes, it is not surprising that so much is written and has been written to justify a belief that comes from a minute part of the bible. Unsurprisingly there is not one part of Calvinism that does not take a large book to explain. There is even a book (amongst the hundred advertised) by Ben Warfield on "Living Waters" website that explains (NOTE THIS) "this book proves that according to scripture that throughout History more have been saved than lost". Now I ask any reasonable person who knows the Bible, Is that not ridiculous? And why the need for such a book?
Didn't someone once talk about a broad way and a narrow way and there would be FEW who found the narrow way?
As it was in the days of Noah so will be the day when Jesus comes- How many people were outside Noah's ark.?
How many did Abram find in Sodom to intercede for?
Didn't Paul say God had not cast away his people for he had left a "remnant". Sounds like a Strange "majority" to me!
Were not many called and FEW chosen?
And even in the Old Testament were there more Jews (God's "chosen") than in the rest of the world for two thousand years?
Does this alleged majority include the Pope and all his followers in the "chosen"- Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons and the like. And if as they maintain the Arminians are preaching "another gospel" then none of them will surely be included in this vast majority.
Certainly the vast throngs in Revelation are immense but if that means the majority of those who have lived on this earth, then the truth lies more with the Universalist, than the Calvinist.
I, yea everyone, would love to believe that more will be saved than lost, but in how many families, businesses or organisation or cemeteries are there more believers than unbelievers. It is even questionable today whether the majority in the pulpits or bible colleges are saved.
But supposing God did, with his abundant grace, choose everyone who had lived, except for about 50- would that be righteous judgment? It Might be grace but not grace & truth. Righteousness is truth.
My I repeat that sometimes I think that the more valid argument against Calvinism, is not really Arminianism, but Universalism. I am sure you can find that defined elswhere on the net.
I am happy to discuss the subject with anyone. I have been thrown off (banned) at least three times from Calvinistic "Grace" (note the irony in the title they choose) forums because they were weary of my questions. Most of their answers were references to some book. So we know where they got their doctrine from.
There is no doubt that Calvinists seems to hold the high ground and those who maintain that belief are indeed a formidable set of bible teachers. Indeed they seem to lay the weight of their argument by the vast amount of books written in defence of Calvinism. Their Sermons contain endless quotes from men, rather than the bible.
Personally, the old adage "me thinks you protest too loudly" springs immediately to mind.
I doubt that if the Calvinist was to publish his version/understanding of the bible, if it would be recognisable by the majority of christians who ponder little on the "great doctrines" of their simple faith. I guess the margin notes would be three times the size of the context.
I can definitely say that what I believe never came from a book or another preacher, other than the Bible. Obviously there is no such thing as original thought and many have come to the same conclusions as myself. Mr Arminia (1560) being the first (of note), apparently, to deny the teachings of John Calvin. (1530 -ish) who got his teaching from the writings of Augustine.
Perhaps it might be wise for me to shut up as well. I could write a lot more.
Hopefully you might come to see my point about God's foresight being the Key to all his plans and purposes, which he was to fulfil in His Son Jesus Christ. What a wonderful father! He had no ambitions outside of His Son's glory. And, what a wonderful son. What an extraordinary price he paid to fill up the coffers of His father's grace. If you haven't yet read our notes on Ephesians and David, Solomon and the Temple of Praise- please do so.
Thessalonians prophesies that at the end times there will be a great falling away. (From what?)
Find a two letter word in the following verse that denotes a promise with conditions
Exod 19:5
5 Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Rom 11:22
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
1 Tim 2:15
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Tim 4:16 (Paul writing to Timothy)
16 Take heed unto yourself and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you.
Phil 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I Jn 2:24-26
24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he promised us-- even eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.(NIV)
John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Paul speaking of himself, kept his bodily appetites in subjection, to ensure he himself was never to become a castaway. 1 Cor 9:27
Paul even warned those who felt they were strong in faith. "Let him that thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall" 1 Cor 10:12
Notice what he says at the beginning of the chapter in warning the Corinthian believers- please read it all but here's a snatch
1 Cor 10:5-6
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
If you have read these verses carefully you surely must be persuaded that it does not sound as if these truths were written by someone who believed in "once saved always saved." It is not unusual to hear a preacher of calvinist persuasion, when preaching on these verses, to have to divert to a half-hour justification of OSAS doctrine, or point you to a book that explains it more fully.
It is quite clear that God gave up on his chosen after a few thousand years and cut the majority off, leaving but a remnant of believers.
Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul is thinking here of the "work" of the Law. Now we are under grace. God has elected those he foreknew.
The phrase "election of grace" holds no subtle meaning other than God chose to pour his grace upon those who would believe.
Also note that in Hosea God "weeps" over Israel because of their backslliding, when he predicts their forthcoming doom.
Hosea 11:8
8 How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
Now dear reader, were they crocodile feelings in his heart? for surely according to Calvinistic belief re the sovereignty of God he could have predestined them to a better end.
He gave wonderful promises to Ephraim concerning their salvation but according to Paul they were all fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Only the remnant who believed entered that promised blessing. He said, "Not all jews are jews and not all Israel is Israel"
Rom 9:66 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. (NIV)
also
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
It is certain that whoever wrote Hebrews did not believe that the Jews who had first believed were saved forever. Some of the sternest warnings to backsliders is recorded in this epistle. Two early examples;
Heb 2:1
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Heb 3:6
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Finally, does not the book of revelation warn the church, of the possibility of their names being blotted out of the book of life?
I could give you another 200 such statements and warnings from Scripture, re the need to keep believing and not be led astray by false teaching.
The whole of scripture is littered with statements concerning man's responsibility for what he chooses to believe. So it is little wonder that there is such a proponderence of books written by Calvinists seeking to explain their beliefs based upon 999th part of scripture. They speak like parrots in terms of believing in the "Sovereignty of God and the "responsibility of man". But if you probe deep enough into what they mean or perceive as the Sovereignty of God, you have to come to the conclusion that man has not the slightest part to play in his salvation. They maintain and preach with thunderous authority that God chooses, and God gives faith to those he chooses. This they define as the "Amazing grace of God". It is so amazing that they seek to forget that he must have chosen trillions of his created beings to suffer eternally in hell.
To maintain that when a man chooses to believe, he is "doing" something towards his salvation" is not only unscriptural but plain daft to me. (Note how in the statements at the beginning of this page, is used the non-scriptural words "savingly believe".)
That belief is certainly unscriptural,- Paul definitely never believed it. He clearly says that faith is not a work. If it was a work it would need to be rewarded, but God has made salvation by faith (not of works) so that he might shower his grace (undeserved favour) upon those who believe in Jesus.
Check these;
Rom 4:2-5
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-- but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.(NIV)
Rom 4:16
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-- not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. (NIV)
To justify their belief that faith is a gift from God the Calvinist will quote Eph 2.
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Firstly, Paul is speaking of salvation - and that is what he is referring to as "the gift", (as per Rom 5 and Rom 6:23) which accords with other scriptures.
In order to back up their belief, they maintain that this particular faith is different from other kinds of faith, they call it saving faith. you will notice in the first line of the chart stating their beliefs is the non-scriptural word "savingly". It is not apparently sufficient to believe to be saved, one must "savingly believe". This kind of saving faith is different from the faith that people whom Jesus healed, commended, when he said "YOUR faith has healed you". I guess it is different even from the faith that we read of in Hebrews ch 11, which was exercised by many Old Testament heroes who did great things for God. Ironically Hebrews is all about Salvation, but never mentions "saving" faith, and gives the fiercest warnings to backsliders to be found in scripture. Why go to such extremes if the writer believed that such had never been given "the saving faith of endurance" by God, in the first place.
How can a righteous God condemn to eternal flames millions because they had no faith, when He himself decided to whom he would give this special faith in the first place. Little wonder the calvinist preacher will speak of this "difficult problem of election."
They would maintain that "Saving"faith is definitely not the simple faith of a child, such as we all exercise every minute of our lives.
For surely, as true as every breath in our body is a gift from God so surely faith must be and is a gift, for faith is the most obvious fact of the human "psyche", for basically man is a skin full of beliefs. There is not one part of life, or an activity that is not based upon faith. EVERYONE has been given faith. Every child believes so easily. They are easily deceived. £90 billion is lost each year through fraud. People believe in someone or something but their faith is unfounded. People travel believing they will not die in the process but millions are killed simply because they set out on a journey. All relationships are based upon what we believe about each other. Every dispute, fight or war is based upon beliefs. The list is endless because the greatest proof that man is a spiritual being made by God, who is a Spirit, is that we have been made in his image with His personal spiritual characteristics, for Faith is the very life of God.
Just as man by his physical life energy can build a house so God by his life energy -FAITH, he created the universe.
In the natural we can say "that we all live by faith". In the Spiritual when we apply that same ability to believe, we choose to believe in God's word and are thereby justified in God's sight. To believe is the simplest thing that any human being can "do".
To believe that God gives faith to those individuals he has chosen, makes mockery of scores of scriptures such as;"Without faith it impossible to please God" or "Those who come to God must believe that he is and a rewarder of those who diligently seek him"
From this same passage in Eph 2 the Calvinist believes that as man is dead in trespasses and sin, then a dead man cannot even hear the gospel, let alone believe it, unless they are first regenerated (born again) by the Holy Spirit.
Now while that may seem logical, in addition to our comments at the top of this page, where is the righteousness and justice in condemning men for being dead, if they were born dead. To say that all men are condemned and deserve to go to hell in the first place is not commensurate with the belief that God could with his sovereign power re-create anyone and everyone, nor with John 3:16. Is he to regenerate them before he judges them? It reminds me of a booklet which was published by the protestant truth society, many years ago, titled "the history of the Popes". On one occasion a new pope dug up a previous dead pope and sat him on the throne and judged him. I know it sounds like fiction, but the calvinist belief has the same sound to me. Will the sinner be dead in Hell? Hell is separation from God. So he must come alive spiritually to God to know any judgmental suffering of separation from God. Methinks the calvinist does not quite understand, body, soul and spirit too well.
One of the great passages much loved by Calvinists is Ephesians ch 1. But please ask yourself why the words “in Him” occur some 12 times in the first 14 verses of Ephesians. God predestined all who chose to enter Noah's ark to be saved.
God knew the names of those who would believe and had them written in the Lamb’s book of life before the world began. He also knows the number of those whose names will be blotted out from that book because they were not overcomers” (Rev 3:5.)
A name cannot be blotted out unless it is first IN. This is not a point greatly emphasised by Calvinists.
So if God has predestined anyone, he has predestined those IN Christ. So how do we get "INto" Christ. The Calvinist says Sovereign God chose us and then put us into Christ. If that is the case, you might as well chuck Hebrews out of the Bible- Paul exhorts the Hebrews to enter into Christ or be lost. and even when we are "IN Christ" Jesus said we had to remain in Him. Those who didn't would be cut off and cast into the fire.
Calvin was a great reformer, but was coming out of Romanism, which has predestination as one of the most fundamental universal doctrines. They maintain that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. All Catholics were predestined to be born Catholics. Calvin probably believed this himself, so if he was to disassociate himself from the Catholic church he would no doubt seek to show how he and his fellow reformers and followers were also predestined according to the foreknowledge of God. As in most revivals there have been reports of the great Deceiver revealing his lies and substitutes, so one should not discount the thought that the devil was active even in the Reformation. Not everything that came from the Reformation was pure golden truth. Calvin apparently looked to Augustine, who lived over a milleneum earlier. Why must everything that Augustine taught be right?
A similar thing is seen in John Wesley, (an arminian) He came out, or was thrown out, of the Church of England, but maintained his belief in infant baptism. Which is unscriptural.
From what I have read I get a picture of Calvin himself as being of the same ilk as the God he believed in. Having once allowed a christian to be executed when a letter from Calvin was all that was needed to save him. How true that is I don't know, and find it hard to believe of any child of God. I do know personally that when I have engaged with some calvinists on so-called "GRACE" forums, I have not been tolerated for very long and expelled by the moderator. Amazing grace!
Romans chs 9-11. (There is an added page on Romans ch 9- click)
Finally, let's look at the most controversial passages in Romans ch 9-1l. If you are not familiar with them - please read them over and over again many times and ask yourself, within the context of the whole epistle- What is Paul trying to say?. Having written his great essay on the Gospel, what was he trying to explain, and who was he speaking to? edit
The situation is this;
Paul has written his explanation of the Gospel to the Gentiles, who were once not among God's chosen people, but now they were. So the natural question surely is "What's happened to the Jews then? Has God cast away his people? Answer: No- not entirely for He has, as promised, left a remnant.
Paul suffered greatly because of the mighty revelation that God had revealed to Him. I guarantee that it even came as an almighty shock to this hebrew of Hebrews. God showed him that the only real Jews, or Israelites were those who like their Father Abraham, had faith.
The Jews may go up in arms when they are told that not all Israel are Israel (Rom 9:6) or that a Jew is not one because he is circumcised (Rom 2:28) They may cry in shock horror to be told that all the chosen were not really children of Abraham, but only those who believed. They may claim that God has moved the goalposts of salvation, but his chosen people has always been and will always be those who believe in their Messiah Saviour (Jesus) and that God always promised through the prophets that the gentiles would see the light of salvation as well. They might throw their toys out of the pram because they have never seen this truth before, but (and this is the thrust of this chapter) God is Sovereign God and the clay can't argue with the potter. He has not moved the goalposts, it is just that the Jews thought it was a hockey match, when all along it was a football match. That is what he had always intended and if they hadn’t been so disobedient or answering him back all the time they might have seen it earlier. But because of their unbelief, the natural nation of Israel has been cut off but all Jews who believe in Jesus will be accepted in the beloved, just like everyone else.
God knew Pharoah’s hard heart before he was born. He hardened it to show his own power over the strongest will of man. God knew the Jews would use the contemporary Roman means of execution to be rid of Jesus. He knew that Judas would eventually side with his Pharisee father, Simon, and betray Jesus. He did not make them choose to do such things.
He loved Jacob but hated Esau: If that confuses you, it may help you to understand by remembering that Jesus said if you did not HATE your mother and father you could not be his disciple. Was Jesus advocating the breaking of the fifth commandment? Of course he was not; - so what did he mean when he said "hate".?
To understand you have to understand greek and hebrew, for some words actually mean opposites. for example "Devoted" also means "accursed"- you can't be devoted to someone, unless you count everything else accursed. Levi means "joined" but also "separated" To be joined to God you must be separated from the world. This is the meaning of Hate in Romans and in Jesus's statement. It merely is a means of emphasis. God's love (grace) was so much poured out on Jacob (Israel) that in comparison Esau was hated. If you check out how both Jacob and God blessed Esau you will see that this is borne out. Even today the Arab nations are prospering in material wealth. What he saw in Jacob was faith. Faith believes in the invisible. Esau credited no value to his spiritual, invisible birthright, he preferred a mess of pottage to satisfy his flesh.
It is worth noting that slap bang in the middle of these chapters we have the oft repeated word "Whosoever"
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
and at the end of ch 9 we read in verse 33.
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
I doubt if more un-calvinistic verses can be found in scripture, especially Paul setting down the necessity for there to be preachers for the unsaved (the dead!) to hear
UNfortunately it takes a 2" thick book by a Calvinist to explain why "Whosoever" does not really mean anyone at all- just the chosen, who have been given the faith to believe and a desperate repentant heart to cry for salvation. Of course the chapters tell us that they need a preacher to tell them that God has chosen them. But I know of some Calvinists who don't even believe they need an evangelist. But when you come to think of it, surely that is the logical conclusion if you believe in the Calvinistic version of the Sovereignty of God.
The Calvinist, I guess, really believes he is giving to God the glory and majesty that is his, compared to sinful unregenerate man, dead in trespasses and sins. This emphasis on Grace is quickly interpreted as the abundant LOVE of God, for God IS LOVE.
If the scripture says that God is not willing that any should perish,(2 Peter 3:9) and that Jesus is the Saviour of all men (1 Tim 4:10) what conclusion should be drawn if this plan of redemption is motivated by love, and carried out by an almighty Sovereign God, who works all things according to his will by deciding to whom he will give the faith that saves them? Surely the Universalist (who believes that everyone will be saved in the end) is nearer the truth and probably the opposite to calvinism, more than Arminianism.
As education is a closer relative of pride than truth, and that God has a way of hiding truths from the wise and prudent and revealing them unto babes, it is not surprising that so much is written and has been written to justify a belief that comes from a minute part of the bible. Unsurprisingly there is not one part of Calvinism that does not take a large book to explain. There is even a book (amongst the hundred advertised) by Ben Warfield on "Living Waters" website that explains (NOTE THIS) "this book proves that according to scripture that throughout History more have been saved than lost". Now I ask any reasonable person who knows the Bible, Is that not ridiculous? And why the need for such a book?
Didn't someone once talk about a broad way and a narrow way and there would be FEW who found the narrow way?
As it was in the days of Noah so will be the day when Jesus comes- How many people were outside Noah's ark.?
How many did Abram find in Sodom to intercede for?
Didn't Paul say God had not cast away his people for he had left a "remnant". Sounds like a Strange "majority" to me!
Were not many called and FEW chosen?
And even in the Old Testament were there more Jews (God's "chosen") than in the rest of the world for two thousand years?
Does this alleged majority include the Pope and all his followers in the "chosen"- Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons and the like. And if as they maintain the Arminians are preaching "another gospel" then none of them will surely be included in this vast majority.
Certainly the vast throngs in Revelation are immense but if that means the majority of those who have lived on this earth, then the truth lies more with the Universalist, than the Calvinist.
I, yea everyone, would love to believe that more will be saved than lost, but in how many families, businesses or organisation or cemeteries are there more believers than unbelievers. It is even questionable today whether the majority in the pulpits or bible colleges are saved.
But supposing God did, with his abundant grace, choose everyone who had lived, except for about 50- would that be righteous judgment? It Might be grace but not grace & truth. Righteousness is truth.
My I repeat that sometimes I think that the more valid argument against Calvinism, is not really Arminianism, but Universalism. I am sure you can find that defined elswhere on the net.
I am happy to discuss the subject with anyone. I have been thrown off (banned) at least three times from Calvinistic "Grace" (note the irony in the title they choose) forums because they were weary of my questions. Most of their answers were references to some book. So we know where they got their doctrine from.
There is no doubt that Calvinists seems to hold the high ground and those who maintain that belief are indeed a formidable set of bible teachers. Indeed they seem to lay the weight of their argument by the vast amount of books written in defence of Calvinism. Their Sermons contain endless quotes from men, rather than the bible.
Personally, the old adage "me thinks you protest too loudly" springs immediately to mind.
I doubt that if the Calvinist was to publish his version/understanding of the bible, if it would be recognisable by the majority of christians who ponder little on the "great doctrines" of their simple faith. I guess the margin notes would be three times the size of the context.
I can definitely say that what I believe never came from a book or another preacher, other than the Bible. Obviously there is no such thing as original thought and many have come to the same conclusions as myself. Mr Arminia (1560) being the first (of note), apparently, to deny the teachings of John Calvin. (1530 -ish) who got his teaching from the writings of Augustine.
Perhaps it might be wise for me to shut up as well. I could write a lot more.
Hopefully you might come to see my point about God's foresight being the Key to all his plans and purposes, which he was to fulfil in His Son Jesus Christ. What a wonderful father! He had no ambitions outside of His Son's glory. And, what a wonderful son. What an extraordinary price he paid to fill up the coffers of His father's grace. If you haven't yet read our notes on Ephesians and David, Solomon and the Temple of Praise- please do so.